Imaginary Island - notes and such
Jul. 13th, 2020 02:05 amWhat with having claims instead of official apps, newbies like me skipped out of having to write a history section, so here's a bunch of headcanon established in chatting and in Balance
SEMI-CHRONOLOGICAL HISTORY (MOSTLY HEADCANON)
History headcanons, as discussed in this plurk about characters' fathers, this plurk of character questions,
Cutesy kid stuff:
Science Disaster / Gaster stuff
Shitty teenage Papyrus behavior:
Life in Snowdin:
Rehearsing for the human:
Flowey, quantum physics, deja vu, the human, the path to the true pacifist ending:
Papyrus summarized:
WARLOCK NOTES
- Formed a pact with Larloch sometime during the offscreen trip between worlds
- Larloch's interest in the pact is for the sake of having an inside source in whatever is going on with the BoB stuff. Being a lich, he'd be immune to the information suppression, but whatever inklings of it have gotten out are likely piecemeal at best... And which of them better to pick as a resource than the bafflingly living skeleton?
- His memories are returning in fragments, biased toward evidence of his importance/insecurity (newest member of the royal guard & i will capture you and bring you to the city!) rather than home, friends, family.
- Familiar is:
MISC NOTES
Papyrus is used to balancing food on his head, Sans is practiced at stacking food on peoples' heads, ergo Sans stacks food on Papyrus' head
Sans and Alphys discuss metaphysics when mildly drunk
- Papyrus puns just as much as Sans does, but he's a snob with pun standards; (1) skeleton and bone puns are TERRIBLY overdone, he thought of and used them all in his teen years, and (2) stand-up comedian style puns, breaking the flow of conversation to blatantly set up for the pun, aren't as funny as puns that at least somewhat fit in the flow of conversation - the ones where people realize after the fact and double take at them
- The red fabric Papyrus wears around his neck is a scarf for this incarnation, rather than a half-cape.
- "Skeletons just have scarves, Papyrus guesses. To protect their neck bones...?"
other links to save:
- private plurk re: mem regains, gaster headcanons, brainstorming papyrus' advanced paths, sans' incredible collection of fashion and other trinkets
- Wily-Art's comic Insomnia, specifically the bit about soul colors reflecting different traits but all being comprised of a mix of all with one or two as primary drives/methods
- private plurk re: remembering gaster, how sans changed post-accident with depression, what papyrus thought was going on, and how things will likely go THIS time as they both go from amnesia blank slate into slowly remembering things
sans in balance threads that include details that might be relevant sometime:
- Sans talking to Wash about what to watch out for in a time loop
- Sans having a great time in Wonderland, including disorientation and semi-memories of timeloops bs
- Sans had a bad time at a carnival, warns people about it. Includes a couple details - Papyrus parks his car in the garage on the surface - and a lot of dry heaving and awful emotions
SEMI-CHRONOLOGICAL HISTORY (MOSTLY HEADCANON)
History headcanons, as discussed in this plurk about characters' fathers, this plurk of character questions,
- Doctor W. D. Gaster, the previous royal scientist with the (presumably) font name Wingdings, was a skeleton with holes in his hands and cracks in his face. A skeleton who's just. So into science. And experiments.
Sans and Papyrus, his sons, something like a decade apart in age. Grew up together in apartment/house in New Home, half-raised in the labs with a daycare situation when each was respectively a babybones, and plenty of take the kids to work days going forward. Puzzles in the kiddie corner, puzzles in the breakroom... and don't forget, the entire layout of the CORE is canonically a modular room puzzle that they rearrange sometimes.
Sans had a knack for science, and an easy in what with his dad being the head honcho, so he did a more apprenticeship thing earlier than usual even for monsters' whimsical scheduling expectations. Learned to teleport as part of his quantum physics studies, and in the process of learning it had some fun hiccups like flickering in place and teleporting literally into part of Papyrus' bedroom's wall.
Gaster genuinely loves his kids! But. Is just Too Into Science, and Papyrus... doesn't have the same knack for it, especially not the theoretical and experimental that Sans and Gaster share. Engineering and respect for puzzles, sure, but not the same spark. So between that disconnect and the age difference, Gaster didn't connect with Papyrus the same way.
Spending a fair amount of his time surrounded by intelligent, technically-minded older folks, in a workplace that was simultaneously a puzzle - the CORE, with its ever-shifting layout - left Papyrus feeling disconnected from other kids, lonely and craving acknowledgement. Hence, skills favoring the tangible and the showy, between engineering, handyman skills, art, and combat.
(Puzzles and parental manners are linked in his mind, and he has plenty of reasons for those Advanced Puzzles books and the misc handyman skills)
"but yeah, i think that's where i'm feeling it for this take on Papyrus. A skeledad who did care but was Into Science in ways Papyrus didn't share, so Sans got more attentive attention. Not neglected, but oscillating between IT'S FINE I DON'T WANT TO, I'M STAYING IN MY ROOM DOING COOL THINGS and whatnot
Sans possibly overcompensating in looking out for his bro, having noticed the difference, and making up for it in other ways. Continuing to do so after, because even though they don't talk about certain things, there's caring there - maybe especially, if they lost whoever they had before."
"gaster probably understood sans better... then sans had to make sure papyrus got attention from him"
- establishing the pattern of Sans checking on his brother's emotional wellbeing, and conscripting random strangers to help him cheer Papyrus up
(Sans is older / focused enough in his areas of study for a monster PHD)
Cutesy kid stuff:
- (1) Papyrus claims that one of his favorite books is "Peek-a-boo with Fluffy Bunny"
and (2) Sans claims "Papyrus gets kind of cranky without his bedtime story"
I like to think that those anecdotes are connected, and that was one of the books that Sans would read to Papyrus - or maybe, Papyrus would read to Sans when he was first learning to read
So you get the visual of little Papyrus and still a kid/teen Sans, big bro supporting little bro in the crook of his arm, as little Papyrus painstakingly reads the story out
Can't fall asleep before the story is over, that's rude.
Papyrus getting kind of cranky without his bedtime story: can't have bedtime story if Sans isn't home yet, story time is ritual time to try to nap, but first, spend some time together
Important stuff to a little skeleton if older bro is doing like, science apprenticeship or whatever the heck, and not spending as much time playing with him
YMMV on it being a tradition of sorts into adult time, less about reading a children's book and more just about spending a little time chatting about the day before bed. The better to be sure Sans isn't off at Grillby's or making other terrible life choices before sleep.
Science Disaster / Gaster stuff
- When Papyrus was 11-12, Gaster meddled in reality-bending magic beyond what he could comprehend or control, and got wiped out in a science disaster that got retconned from memory almost immediately afterwards (thread from Balance, a Sans memory).
We're left with two skeletons (one a young 20s adult, one a tween kid), who may not remember their own dad, making for a pretty big chunk of their childhoods and context to go missing.
"Papyrus hates Hotland less because of steamvents and conveyor belts, and more because of associating them with confusion and grief in the immediate aftermath of the redaction, when he and Sans would've been trying to make sense of the holes in their past"
Likewise, if they wind up in Waterfall and first go to Snowdin to get some food, their first stop is... Grillby's. It's food, but it's not staying down comfortably.
For Sans, it's a first anchor to reality (well, second, after Papyrus).
Their home and stuff still exist in New Home, maybe they stay there a while before the Snowdin move.
Shitty teenage Papyrus behavior:
- I was struck by the concept art and notes that Toby put in the art book, of the original version of Papyrus being... obnoxious, the fedora variety of no redeeming qualities
I think Papyrus had at least a teenage phase of that kind of bullshit, being a Jerry and complaining about everyone and everything, talking himself up in the empty sort of way
I think he also had a phase of being like, whatever the nearest guardian is like, he's irritated by it and bound to do the opposite........
except, by that point, the available guardian was Sans. Depressed and lazy.
so rebellion looks like cleaning and hardwork....??
Sans honestly saying he didn't touch [moody teenager bad decision items], Papyrus shouting and stamping and not believing it
Like, there's times when their banter along the Snowdin road seems very playacted, like they're both reading from the same script and putting on a show for the human to enjoy
The idea that they're imitating and mocking their own old dynamic is fun
Life in Snowdin:
- The skelebros only moved to Snowdin a "few years" prior to the game - sometime after Gaster's redaction, and likely prior to Alphys' appointment. Possibly within a year of the redaction, given the disorientation of the place they can't remember right.
Papyrus can play with his toys and books without much direction from gaps, since Gaster didn't join in that much.
Years in Snowdin, "asserting themselves" with loud shenanigans in the street, bar visits like clockwork and the slow spread of additional puzzles along the road...
On why Papyrus is well enough liked - or at least tolerated - yet considers himself friendless and lonely:
"Sans goes to the bar and chats with people and occasionally pulls pranks, Papyrus scolds and stomps and puts puzzles in the pathway. As their neighbors go, Doggo specifically has a grudge against Sans, but most seem more fond of Sans than Papyrus."
"sans knows how to be chill so that probably helps a lot"
"Papyrus knows how to be C00L TM, but Sans knows how to be chill."
Papyrus brags, and spreads cheer and self confidence, but he's also a little offputting and not great at connecting to people. Gets uncomfortable when anyone (but Sans?) seems to care too attentively about him for long, like it's unfamiliar or something. Sabotages some tentative friendships by pushing them to also befriend others, or by being a little too agitated in not explaining where they moved from. He's already Sans' main anchor, can't dedicate that much attention to anyone else in particular.
Gets better at the deflection as he grows up, at least in terms of not bringing up as many things he wants to avoid, and being whimsical enough to almost always have a tangent to run away with.
Rehearsing for the human:
- "do you think they really did rehearse some of it... like going through the forest talking to an imaginary human"
"Honestly? I really kind of do.
Evidence:
(1) Papyrus gets mad at Sans for not having a puzzle... except, Papyrus came that way to meet Sans by their sentry stations. He knows full well that there's nothing but a piece of paper there.
(2) Some of his introductions to his puzzles sound very rehearsed, in the sense of reading off familiar words and trailing off in confusion if, say, a murdery human walks through them before he's finished
(3) Papyrus outright talks about practicing monologues for things, and he repeats his battle speech verbatim if the human fights him multiple times, even after "capturing" them. And that's not videogame simplicity, the pre-game monologue is very different with each repeat fight."
"I am accepting this as canon, it's so ridiculous and good"
"(And like. They super coordinated on the blue attack prank. Sans goes out of his way to give helpful pointers about it, except he's only giving advice about the blue bones... And then Papyrus uses the blue bones as a long, boring distraction before using the real blue attack.)"
Flowey, quantum physics, deja vu, the human, the path to the true pacifist ending:
- Sans does not REMEMBER the resets as fanon sometimes claims - his quantum physics research combined w/perceptiveness means he knows to pay attention to his deja vu, and he makes some notes on it
Papyrus is Flowey's favorite, possibly in part for his diligence in trying to be positive, possibly in part for his being kind of weird and thus less predictable than many others, and possibly... well. Papyrus is eager for a friend, and praise, and advice, and might do all manner of thing for them.
In some of the time loops, Papyrus comes up with the idea to make a Flowey Fan Club, forcing his brother to go along with (unspecified if he ever gets other people to also join, and unspecified are the activities or motivations for making this fanclub). I suspect that at least one of these is in a loop where Flowey admits to his backstory and Papyrus is overcome with sympathies.
In the game's main timeline, the timeloop that Frisk's arrival interrupts, Flowey has been laying low since the start, avoiding everyone but Papyrus (and maybe Alphys - she knows to be worried at the mention of a little yellow flower).
As Sans recounts, Flowey's been visiting Papyrus with a mix of flattery, praise, advice, and predictions - demonstrating that his knowledge and/or judgement is trustworthy, steering Papyrus into taking some path he wouldn't on his own.
Fact: You can befriend Papyrus and Undyne in your first playthrough, but befriending Alphys requires that Undyne give you a letter - and she doesn't, the first time through. You have to at least fight Asgore and Flowey and reload from your save before she'll demand you deliver the letter. She claims it was Papyrus' idea... But Flowey is the one with memories and an agenda.
Headcanon: Upon either reloading or reaching the right point in a reset, Flowey goes to Papyrus with advice for how New Friend Frisk could help Undyne AND Alphys at the same time. After all, the phone call to Frisk after the Alphys date instructing them to go meet up with Alphys, starts with an un-Papyrus "HOWDY" and follows into some conspicuously nervous comments. It makes the most sense that it was at Flowey's behest as part of their scheme to make Frisk make enough friends that Asgore wouldn't kill them (buying time for Flowey to steal a soul).
Further headcanon: Papyrus was in on the 'make the human make friends' plan, and maybe even the 'distract Asgore to go steal a soul' part, but not the 'steal ALL the souls' part. Papyrus' surprise when Flowey grabs the monsters is genuine.
Getting into the lost soul stuff, Papyrus and Sans' comments play out like a conversation; Papyrus making boastful claims about finally getting the respect and attention he wants, Sans shooting him down w/ the reminder that everyone they knew before is gone, and Papyrus going silent as Sans continues being negative.
The conversation on the surface where Papyrus asks Sans what that bright orb is seems like more acting out previous conversations, or maybe a meme.
Frisk has had a good amount of adventure this very long, time-loop-filled day, and opts to stay with Toriel and be a kid. Papyrus is more than happy to fill the ambassador vacancy, and take on the role of being the first to greet all the humans with his bright and winsome smile. (He probably terrifies a couple of campers)
The racecar bed gets to be replaced with a real red convertible, Papyrus living out the driving dream as best as he can; Sans being a pest and showing off blue magic momentum manipulation because he's a troll.
Papyrus summarized:
- Which is to say, part of Papyrus' theme is that he's sort of removed from the world around him. Sort of lonely and out of place, and he only really thrives when his brother's in a position to be helping him out.
He is loud, he is awkward, he is clever and tricky with some of his pranks, he goes along with mannerly things to absurd and silly extents and it's not entirely clear to what degree he's jokingly doing so and to what degree it's sincere...
and he yearns to matter to people. He's the first to say so, he wants to be popular! prestigious! to have friends!!! who care about him!
In every neutral ending that he's alive, he is either (1) gravitating toward whoever's in power, even for a meaningless empty position, or (2) sticking loyally with the friends he's got (depressed Undyne, exiled Toriel, and so on). And he's tagging along with Sans to do it.
I think Papyrus' obstacles include how his natural eccentricities lead people to underestimate him, whatever codependent tangle he's got with Sans as reflected in that music stuff, and things like... his sense of humor and very conditional rules-abidingness sabotage what he claims his goals are.
The cardboardhydrate pun station is not a professional-looking sentry station of a guy who is seriously gunning for a promotion, I mean.
He doesn't seem to be working to overcome any of these things, either. If, as I headcanon, he used to be a Jerry-like little shit of a teenager, then he's working hard at improving himself from that sort of thing. But if he's working hard at being more appealing to people, he's going about it oddly.
And if he's trying to be earnest about who he is and what he wants, then it's weird he lies to Undyne about things like "our love for grease."
WARLOCK NOTES
- Formed a pact with Larloch sometime during the offscreen trip between worlds
- Larloch's interest in the pact is for the sake of having an inside source in whatever is going on with the BoB stuff. Being a lich, he'd be immune to the information suppression, but whatever inklings of it have gotten out are likely piecemeal at best... And which of them better to pick as a resource than the bafflingly living skeleton?
- His memories are returning in fragments, biased toward evidence of his importance/insecurity (newest member of the royal guard & i will capture you and bring you to the city!) rather than home, friends, family.
- Familiar is:
- - A small white dog of unspecified gender or name, that has offered no protest to Papyrus thinking and referring to it as it or dog or whatnot. Roughly Japanese Spitz-shaped and sized. An embodiment of the pact with Larloch, somewhere between assistant and spy, perfectly willing to keep some secrets and forge some connections without involving Papyrus if it seems helpful to his patron.
MISC NOTES
Papyrus is used to balancing food on his head, Sans is practiced at stacking food on peoples' heads, ergo Sans stacks food on Papyrus' head
Sans and Alphys discuss metaphysics when mildly drunk
- Papyrus puns just as much as Sans does, but he's a snob with pun standards; (1) skeleton and bone puns are TERRIBLY overdone, he thought of and used them all in his teen years, and (2) stand-up comedian style puns, breaking the flow of conversation to blatantly set up for the pun, aren't as funny as puns that at least somewhat fit in the flow of conversation - the ones where people realize after the fact and double take at them
- The red fabric Papyrus wears around his neck is a scarf for this incarnation, rather than a half-cape.
- "Skeletons just have scarves, Papyrus guesses. To protect their neck bones...?"
other links to save:
- private plurk re: mem regains, gaster headcanons, brainstorming papyrus' advanced paths, sans' incredible collection of fashion and other trinkets
- Wily-Art's comic Insomnia, specifically the bit about soul colors reflecting different traits but all being comprised of a mix of all with one or two as primary drives/methods
- private plurk re: remembering gaster, how sans changed post-accident with depression, what papyrus thought was going on, and how things will likely go THIS time as they both go from amnesia blank slate into slowly remembering things
sans in balance threads that include details that might be relevant sometime:
- Sans talking to Wash about what to watch out for in a time loop
- Sans having a great time in Wonderland, including disorientation and semi-memories of timeloops bs
- Sans had a bad time at a carnival, warns people about it. Includes a couple details - Papyrus parks his car in the garage on the surface - and a lot of dry heaving and awful emotions
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